From the Editor :
Here's a question: Just how good are Pakistan, really?
Certainly Misbah-ul-Haq's team are on the rise - lest we forget, it wasn't that long ago that they drew with the West Indies.
Yet their ability to gradually impose themselves on opposition in Asian conditions is obvious now. They still have occasional moments that are sublime, but gone are the days when they relied on those moments to win matches.
Instead they go about their business in methodical fashion, their persistence grinding the other side into the dust over a course of many hours. It may not be thrilling, but it does have a certain beauty.
Equally clear is the goodwill flowing through their squad. In Misbah and Mohsin Khan they have two good men, and suddenly Dav Whatmore may be surplus to requirements on the coaching front.
What remains to be seen is whether they can triumph in less familiar conditions. What a pity that we won't find out until the end of the year, when they travel to South Africa.
That'll do us for now. Over to you.
Team C365,
England are a guarantee to win today even with my ropey predictions they cannot fail unless an annual rain day is coming.
@Emerlander you have solid points but what i m talking about is no test and onedays played by Australia, India and England. They remain on top most of the times like Sri lanka and India have two bilateral series in 1 year same as Ashes excluding IPL. So there should be balance. Pakistan will go to SA and Australia after 5 years and they cant play at home. In FTP teams are not even bothering to abide by it in case of Pakistan. PCB says teams can decide where they want to play we are ready as no player in IPL too.And that 130 rating points Australia started loosing matches after that i think. But why teams don't go above 130 ratings
basically wt i cant understand is y there is not equal amoint of games played against same opposition over a period of time. secondly i dont rate indo pak matches and same for ashes. yes i watch it for the sake of my love for the game but not( as each of these countries always hype it up )as best series. its so awkward wen foreign teams come to lords and put into a corner on tv wen asked wts best cricket ground and they have to say lords becaus they dont want to b rude to hosts
@Vic010, what? Did you log in to the wrong account, Mitch? XD
Of course Smith was pretty much the reason that Vaughan and Hussein retired. Although Dale Steyn had a hand in the Vaughan retirement.. the poor bloke couldn't spot an outswinger to save his life (or his team, for that matter).
SAcricket, yes that is a problem. I guess the lower a team is in the ranking, the longer it takes to get to the top. But once a team is near the top and thereabouts, things become easier. The top ranked teams' points are always around 120. If SA has 130 points in Tests and doesn't play for 8 or 9 months, it'll still be on top simply because it's very unlikely for any team to go past 130 points in Test rankings. If that happens you can bet some will say that you're high on the rankings simply because you play less games and hence have lesser chances of losing. ;) Also, I wonder whose fault it is that they play less games. If the boards really want it they can arrange tests for their teams right?
@Engima, Always carry on in what you want to write fellow, I do not always agree with your comments, but I enjoy reading them, your views are just as important and everyones else, never let anyone stop you. @Dhirshg, You think England vs Aussies is most important head to head, I would never see any public form either from the both nation causing riots and all that if one beat another, these things are certain to happen in India and Pakistan game in a high pressure cooker game which India have not experinced yet in losing lol. @ibtisam, I never said of those words being mentioned, it was engima, but facts are facts and pakistan do have a habbit of stiring things with India and come out on the losing side in bi games, I know it, you know it, we all know it! Enough Said!
I feel that SA team's standing is elevated beyond its true worth by some of our bloggers over here. Kallis, Smith, Steyn, ABD.. Four players of geniune class. Maybe Amla joins them too. But still we are left with 6-7 run of the mill cricketers. I struggle to see what more Smith could have done with this team in test cricket. It's not like they are the Aussies from the first half of the last decade.
51_all_out / MadZuluBoy said "Kirsten offered the poisoned chalice of the SA captaincy to Amla and Botha (you forgot De Villiers)".
Having said that Smith is still the captain. For the LAST TIME man the players and the management agree that Smith is truly the only qualified Man for the job right now. In my opinion I would throw Amla into the deep end. He is the Man for the job in my opinion but if he does not want the job then how do you force him? This goes to show really what a true Man Smith is to have taken over the job at age 22 and in my opinion has not done a terrible job as you (as usual) make him out to have.
/troll off....
@SAcricket. It has its negative impacts too. If by chance you loose 1 test match, it will reduce the points. You have to make sure that you have to win all the matches to be safe.
G.Smith is a contradictory enigma. As a player he is unrivalled in the current crop as an opener. If you could choose any one opener to have in your team (regardless of his current test form blip which he will undoubtedly correct soon enough - he always does) the truly objective would choose Smith. However as a captain he has led the greatest team on paper to mediocrity only being able to win one series against the top 5 in over 3 years, was a driving force in getting rid of their most successful coach ever, has driven a wedge down the middle of his collective charges with a clique-ism that he has not only been unable to control but also has added to and did a runner 'cowardly captain' style after the WC...in truly subjective style - great player / despicable man which is why Kirsten offered the poisoned chalice of the SA captaincy to Amla and Botha.
@ Emerlander , I see what you are saying but if 1 team plays 3 test series in a year and another team only plays 1 test series in a year does it not give the team playing 3 series more of an oppertunity to earn more rating points and push themselves further up the ranking list ?
@SAman, I actually said Smith HAD finished 2 England captains careers shortly after the last defeat to SA in England!! I still believe I was right to say so. Although I didn't get too many people on here saying I was wrong at the time.
Mitch : "Some on here have an illusion that some English captains retired because of Smith!"
Some here have really short memories! Criticise the man all you like, Smith is far from perfect and definately deserves criticism for some of his conduct (although leaving out the back door after a heartbreak to go and propose to his girlfriend isn't that bad of an excuse). But now you're attempting to take away from his past acheivements! I will not have it! (Please note, as it is apparently impossible to convey through written word, the sarcasm in my "voice")
And you call tunnel vision. Really. Anything that doesn't quite suit your argument regarding Smith goes out the window before you can say "Greg" (Smith, in case your memory really IS that short).
@kazzy and @ Enigma....no player and team official has said that ....only PCB chairman is saying bcoz he has been trying to play series against India but they are not agreeing bcoz of their poor form thats what he said and India is scheduled to play Pakistan so they should wherever they want to play he said...@ kazzy Pakistan and SA are playing very few test matches compared to Ind, Aus and Eng so the ranking should be adjusted acc to that....
Lemme quote the ICC's FAQ regarding Test rankings: "In every match the total rating points available equals the sum of the initial rating of the two teams, so ratings can be thought of as being redistributed rather than created. There is therefore no 'inflation' in this rating system, so a rating of 120 suggests the same degree of superiority over opponents now as in the past or future, and a team can meaningfully compare its rating movements over time." So there you go guys. If a team is consistently good, it'll be high in the ranking. Playing more games isn't an advantage as you think. Zimbabwe or Bangladesh wouldn't go to the top of the ranking even if they play 200 games per year, would they.
@ibtisam, I've given credit to Afridi too here. But Misbah is captain now and he's doing a good job. Perhaps, I could have included Afridi's name too when I congratulated Pakistan for this win. Probably it didn't occur to me cause Afridi didnt play in this series (Not sure why he didn't). Anyway, we both agree that Afridi has done a commendable job. Let's talk about this rating thing. You do make an interesting point. However, you would have noticed that the points of the top ranked team never goes too high. For example, Australia has won most of their ODI's for years yet their point has always hovered around 130. So even if Pakistan doesn't play enough games, if they have a good win-loss ratio, they'll get to the top eventually. Think about it, you lose points ONLY when you lose a match. So even if a team doesn't play for 5 months their points will be intact. They can start from where they left off when they play again. If anything, playing a low number of games will slow down the progress up the ranking. But it's not gonna prevent anyone from going up. So it's best to stick to the ICC ranking system, in my opinion.
The editor says.... This is the first cricket post all morning - some will notice comments prior to this were rejected, most of them dealing with India v Pakistan. If you don't like that, tough. This is a place to discuss cricket in a gentlemanly manner, not a forum for nationalistic sledging. Thank you.
@Engima, You have forgotten that Akhtar is getting no publicity because he is not playing or retired or whatever it is these days with him so he wanted to talk big so people can talk about it LOL! It really does not matter what Akhtar and Afridi has to say about sachin, all they and rest of sachins critics need to do is just look at sachins record, and for afridid and akhtar they can look at there own performances and its been so inconsistent that they have not even earnt a guranteed starting line - up place for Pakistan! Sachin does not need to talk, its all there for everyone to see whos achieved what, Sachin made Akhtar and rest of the Pakistan great bowlers such as wasim and waqar cry in that 2003 world cup where sachin hit the shot of the century which most put it as, when he squared cut akhtar for 6. I have to say Pakistan are playing well, but nothing will be proved until they travel abroad, I mean if there batting is really out of place on familiar pitches that suit them, then they will be tortured abroad with likes of steyn and that.
@enigma, lol ashwin is far from the best spinner in the world!
the pakistan/india rivalry is over-rated in my opinion - it's more about politics than cricket. hate to say it but aus/eng is way better coz its purely in cricketing terms . . .
Kazzy, well said. pakistani officials, players and fans talk big but don't perform on the field. I remember 'big mouth' musharaf alleging that India were afraid of playing pakistan (sometime back in 2002-03); India responded by knocking pakistan out of the 2003 World Cup. I have not come across a single instance of any Indian Board official, player or press criticising or belittling pakistan. But you can't the same about pakistani officials/players/media. Sometime last year, shoaib akhtar and shahid afridi tried to gain some cheap publicity by throwing mud at Tendulkar - these jokers are not even fit to lace Tendulkar's boots. Tendulkar did not respond, that shows his greatness.
@Enigma It was an entire continent away from an emphatic victory. Which match are you watching ? Not the yester years matches highlights.
@whowhatwhen2004, India are not prepared to play Pakistan because of the political issues, let me make one thing clear and sound, whenever Pakistan are playing good cricket they always talk about beating India and India being scared, and soon as the 2 teams meet India wins and pakistan team and there fans become silent, Thing is India raise it for pakistan and in big occasions, if you look at overall head to heads, Pakistan are ahead, India have closed the gap in the last decade or so and iam firstly talking ODI here, but if you look at big games, big pressure, rest of the world watching, glued eyes, India record is awesome, specially in world cup cricket, pakistan are yet to win against India, Test matches recent times, India have had the better of Pakistan. Oh yea also when India beat Pakistan, then pakistan media come out with match fixing claims, they talk as if India have got no GOD given right to beat Pakistan. Currently Pakistan are playing better than India, the reason is Pakistan are on familiar grounds, dont matter if UAE is not sub continent, its all the same thing, we all know pakistan cant travel well, India have travelled before well and donr good job, taking out the last 2 series abroad!
Congratulations World Champions India on an emphatic victory. Ashwin is not only the best spinner in the world but is also the games most promising all rounder. India Zindabad!
What it also means if you think about it is that the viewing public is being deprived of seeing certain talented players more often because certain teams are playing significantly less test cricket for example. Steyn and De Villiers spring to mind with SA playing alot less games than India , Aus or Eng.
Mash has a good point there , the ranking system isnt in any way fair in my opinion. The teams who play more matches obviously have more of a chance to improve their rankings / gain more points as they are playing more matches. I can't really understand why some of the boards of the countries who are getting alot less test matches are complaining / doing something about this.
Just what the heck are Broad , Swann, Cook , Jimmy doing in the ODI team! Give them a proper rest Flower! Performance (or the lack of it) on these energy sapping pitches of UAE will have absolutely no bearing on the WC2015 in Australia.
@ Emerlander... u have to see no of test matches played by teams....India is on top to plays many matches as any other teams so as other but Pakistan hardly played test matches in recent past...and this team was build under Shahid Afridi and why Misbah is taking credit of it all....@All
Posted 10/02/2012 @ 7:46
@SAman, nope, my account only. Steyn is real class. He also loves the Kiwis. He took almost 5 every time last played against them. Amla also made his comeback against them and got plenty, so he should get a few more tons to warm up for England. Looking forward to see how Big Vern does in English conditions. That should be interesting. I know he played for Middlesex about 4 or 5 years ago & was not too impressive but then he didn't know his game like he does now. And of course he is about 4 /5 years older/better. Got my tickets booked for Lords already.